Popins’ Lair Interview with R. Scot Johns, author of “The Saga of Beowulf”
Conducted: November 2, 2008
Posted at: proudbookworm.blogspot.com
Q: Congratulations on your debut novel “The Saga of Beowulf.” How does it feel being
published?
A: Oddly, it's a mixed blessing, really. There was, of course, a wonderful initial rush and sense of
accomplishment seeing the book in print, holding a physical copy in my hands. After years of work,
seeing it come to fruition was a wondrous thing. It's what we live for, really. Creating something that
was not there before. And then came the realization of all the work I still had yet to do. I would like
to get right on with my next book, you know. But now there's marketing to do - ad campaigns and
networking and demographic studies to determine how to focus sales. And much of that is
exhilarating in itself, particularly interacting with other writers and especially the readers. I haven't
done any book signings yet, but I'm looking forward to that. Right now, however, I'm in this strange
intermediate state of limbo waiting for the first reviews to come in, because that's where you really
find out how you've done, if you've connected with another person somewhere out there in the
world.
Q: What made you decide to write a book about Beowulf?
A: It was a long time in the making, actually. On the Fantasy Castle website you can read a lengthy
essay I wrote on how it all came to be, and the grueling adaptation process. But the short version
here is that at first I wrote it as a film. In college I was a medieval lit student, and Beowulf was, of
course, a fundamental work in that regard. But somehow it really struck me, more than most. At
the time I was managing a video rental store, and it occurred to me that there had not yet been a
movie made of Beowulf. So I wrote one. I had already done extensive research on the subject, but
I had never written a screenplay, so it took quite a while. In the meantime, of course, two other
versions sold and were both made into films. So that ended any chance I had to sell a third. But I
done so much work already, and had gone to college, in fact, to become a writer, that I couldn't
just let all that effort go to waste. So that's how the novel came to be. And in the end, I'm glad it
worked out that way, because I think the book is better for it. It has a very dramatic, visual style
that it might not have gotten otherwise.
Q: How much research did you put into the novel?
A: Tons. I can't really even begin to estimate how many hours it would amount to, because it's well
into the years and years range, counting all the work I did in college, studying the original poem
itself. I learned Old English and did my own translation into modern English. I read every critical
work on the subject, compiling several notebooks full of notes. I had at one point four bulletin
boards plastered with maps and genealogies and outlines and plans of battle strategies. Then I
studied early Viking history and culture, how their ships were made and houses built, what kind of
crafts they did and how they made their swords. I read a lot of works external to Beowulf, because
within the poem there are a great many passing references to contemporary events the audience of
the time would know, but which are now forgotten, save in scattered documents. The fact that it
was an adaptation of a classic work vastly multiplied the amount of work required of any period
piece.
Q: What kind of things will the reader expect to see in the story?
A: At its root it is an adventure tale, so there is quite a lot of action. A great many battles take
place, both on an epic scale of warfare between opposing clans and on the smaller, more personal
one of individual characters at odds. And it is also a legendary fantasy, with mythological creatures
such as ogres and trolls, and a fire-breathing dragon - the dragon in Beowulf is one of the first in
western literature, in fact (Tolkien, of course, drew heavily on Beowulf for his Middle Earth epic,
so much of it might seem strangely familiar). But on top of that there is tale of personal struggle. It is
a quest story, really, of a man in search of himself. Many of the characters are at odds with their
world, in one way or another, trying to fit in or find a place where they belong, and it is that which
truly propels the events, rather than just one adventure after another. The story dwells a lot on Fate,
and how one finds (or makes) meaning in one's life. It is a very philosophical work in many ways,
dealing with some fairly heavy issues, foremost of which, of course, is facing death. It is a tragedy,
as you know if you have read the poem, but one which is not without hope. And there is a poignant
love story interwoven through it all, which is the heart of all the rest.
Q: How long did it take you to write The Saga of Beowulf and what was the process like in
getting published?
A1: That is two questions, so I will give you two answers. Overall it took more than a decade from
start to finish. But as I said, I came to it through a very circuitous route, and did not work on it all
the while. Long periods went by when I did not work on it at all, for one reason or another, and
then a flurry of activity would go on for some time, so that it came in fits and starts. Sometimes
when months (or years) went by I would have to start again from Chapter 1, re-reading all my
notes and all that came before to get back up to where I was. There is so much detail and such a
wealth of information to keep straight, that even so many notes became a burden. But in terms of
actual writing time it was probably something like two to three years on the novel, and another year
for the screenplay before that, spread out over ten and interspersed with research. Just the outlining
and writing of the synopses probably comes to a year alone. I had this great chart running along the
top of my wall for a span of six feet or so, laying out all the subplots so I could see where all the
characters were at any given point, and keep the pacing steady.
A2: As far as the publishing process goes, I sent out about 60 queries a year ago, mostly to agents,
of which I have as yet only heard back from barely half. Of those I had requests for partials from 8
or 10, and have still not heard back from half of those. The rest, of course, were rejections, though
a few with helpful notes and words of encouragement. I have actually only submitted to three
publishers, and heard back from one. Daw rejected it after two months, and Tor has had it for over
three with no reply. There are very few publishers who specialize in fantasy, and a scant handful
who will take submissions without an agent. And all but one or two of these require exclusivity,
meaning you can submit to only them, and then you must wait for their reply before sending it to
another publisher. It's an utterly ridiculous process, geared entirely to benefit the trades. So in the
meantime, not being one to wait around for someone else to decide how my life would go, I
decided to start my own publishing company. And Fantasy Castle Books was born. In this age of
modern technology, with print-on-demand and internet retailing, the trade publishers no longer have
a choke-hold on the market. It is now the readers who determine what is good and what is not,
and not the boardroom publicists, whose only goal is massive sales. As an independent
author/publisher I can connect directly with my readers, and am happy with far fewer sales,
because I know they will be based on my writing and not on advertising. My only marketing is
through channels like this, just to let the readers know the book is there. Then it is up to them to
decide for themselves if it deserves a place upon the virtual shelves of Amazon and B&N.com.
Q: Did you make The Saga of Beowulf: more historical than fantasy, more fantasy than
historical, or a balanced mixture of both?
A: That is an excellent question, and one I am glad you asked. Beowulf is almost always taken as a
tale of fantasy, both by critics of the original poem and authors of adaptations. There have been
quite a few short novellas done over the years - John Gardner's "Grendel" and Michael Chricton's
"Eaters of the Dead" most notably among them - and even a few longer works; but almost all deal
with it as a monster tale, a period fantasy and nothing more, with the historical elements only
providing a palette for the fantasy. Beowulf, however, is based in part on actual events that
occurred in the early 6th century, corroborated by external evidence, both in archaeology and
chronicle. It was the historical elements that most fascinated me, and which ultimately enticed me to
undertake this work, all the more because they are so overlooked, even in the poem, where they
are scattered as broken shards among the ruins of a fallen race. I did my best to piece these all
back together and present them as a cohesive narrative, albeit one enmeshed in fantasy. So
hopefully I have achieved some sense of balance between the two. There is definitely more overt
fantasy, but it is difficult to extract the two. The most strictly historical (and best documented)
portions come in the third quarter of the story, and right at the beginning where I set up the premise,
but it is all built on a strong historical foundation.
Q: In the Beowulf universe, who is your favourite character and why?
A: Wiglaf is my favorite, although I came to love (and despise) a great many of the characters. But
Wiglaf is really a core character, and represents for me the true hero in the story. In the poem he is
really just a bit part, but his role is so pivotal and so important in the scope of events that I brought
him in right from the start and made him more significant. To me he is much like Sam Gamgee is in
Tolkien: the little guy who has his head on right. When all the more lofty characters have issues of
ego and greed and power to contend with, Wiglaf is the loyal friend, the honest one whose heart is
true and brave. And he is funny too, in his way.
Q: I have to ask, what did you think about the recent CGI movie about Beowulf? The one
with Anthony Hopkins and Angelina Jolie.
A: I had mixed feelings about it (as well Beowulf & Grendel, with Gerard Butler, which came out
the year before). Overall I thought it wasn't bad, although I think it was a great mistake to make the
humans CGI. It's amazing how good animation is getting, but it's just not there yet with human
characters. It made the whole film look too cartoonish, and hard to take seriously. Had they made
it more like the recent Star Wars films, where the humans were filmed real, but in a world made up
almost entirely of CGI, it would have been so much stronger. Having actual actors lends a reality to
the animation that is just not there otherwise. Angelina looked great, but Hopkins did not, and you
could definitely tell where the computer guys spent all their time! My main complaint about the
Robert Zemeckis film, though, was the dialogue. Neil Gaimon & Roger Avery are good writers,
but the script was really weak. Period dialogue is really hard to do, granted, but so many good
fantasy movies are just utterly ruined by stilted dialogue, and the "I am Beowulf!" business has
gotten plenty of just ridicule of late (even though the line is actually in the poem, albeit in a
completely different context). In general, the story was done pretty well, but the plot twist involving
the demon-spawn business was just taken too far, and ultimately amounted to little, really, in terms
of emotional attachment to the characters. Character motivation is everything in a story, to me, and
unless you can identify with their drives it is very hard to appreciate a story for more than its action.
Q: What do you have planned for next?
A: Before I went to college, long ago, I had actually begun a fantasy story called "The Jester's
Quest," in which a lowly court jester falls in love with the princess and sets off on an epic quest to
prove his worth. I went to college to study writing because of that story, but have not yet gotten
back to it. I pulled it out the other day, and honestly I think now that I just should have written it.
An education never hurts, but I think I was on the right track all along. In another year or two we'll
see if that holds true! I need to get that one done, because I have other ideas pushing at the
backside of my brain, wanting to get out.
Q: What final thing would you like to say to any potential reader who isn't sure if they
want to read your book?
A: If you're still unsure, hop on over to fantasycastlebooks.com, where you can read the whole first
chapter and half the second online. Amazon also has the Look Inside feature where you can read
the first eight pages or so. But if you like epic fantasy adventure it doesn't get much bigger than this.
640 pages for fifteen bucks, and it's really packed: Viking ships and sea serpents, battles on land
and sea, love and betrayal, action and adventure, swords and dragons and joy and tears.
Thanks again!
Conducted: November 2, 2008
Posted at: proudbookworm.blogspot.com
Q: Congratulations on your debut novel “The Saga of Beowulf.” How does it feel being
published?
A: Oddly, it's a mixed blessing, really. There was, of course, a wonderful initial rush and sense of
accomplishment seeing the book in print, holding a physical copy in my hands. After years of work,
seeing it come to fruition was a wondrous thing. It's what we live for, really. Creating something that
was not there before. And then came the realization of all the work I still had yet to do. I would like
to get right on with my next book, you know. But now there's marketing to do - ad campaigns and
networking and demographic studies to determine how to focus sales. And much of that is
exhilarating in itself, particularly interacting with other writers and especially the readers. I haven't
done any book signings yet, but I'm looking forward to that. Right now, however, I'm in this strange
intermediate state of limbo waiting for the first reviews to come in, because that's where you really
find out how you've done, if you've connected with another person somewhere out there in the
world.
Q: What made you decide to write a book about Beowulf?
A: It was a long time in the making, actually. On the Fantasy Castle website you can read a lengthy
essay I wrote on how it all came to be, and the grueling adaptation process. But the short version
here is that at first I wrote it as a film. In college I was a medieval lit student, and Beowulf was, of
course, a fundamental work in that regard. But somehow it really struck me, more than most. At
the time I was managing a video rental store, and it occurred to me that there had not yet been a
movie made of Beowulf. So I wrote one. I had already done extensive research on the subject, but
I had never written a screenplay, so it took quite a while. In the meantime, of course, two other
versions sold and were both made into films. So that ended any chance I had to sell a third. But I
done so much work already, and had gone to college, in fact, to become a writer, that I couldn't
just let all that effort go to waste. So that's how the novel came to be. And in the end, I'm glad it
worked out that way, because I think the book is better for it. It has a very dramatic, visual style
that it might not have gotten otherwise.
Q: How much research did you put into the novel?
A: Tons. I can't really even begin to estimate how many hours it would amount to, because it's well
into the years and years range, counting all the work I did in college, studying the original poem
itself. I learned Old English and did my own translation into modern English. I read every critical
work on the subject, compiling several notebooks full of notes. I had at one point four bulletin
boards plastered with maps and genealogies and outlines and plans of battle strategies. Then I
studied early Viking history and culture, how their ships were made and houses built, what kind of
crafts they did and how they made their swords. I read a lot of works external to Beowulf, because
within the poem there are a great many passing references to contemporary events the audience of
the time would know, but which are now forgotten, save in scattered documents. The fact that it
was an adaptation of a classic work vastly multiplied the amount of work required of any period
piece.
Q: What kind of things will the reader expect to see in the story?
A: At its root it is an adventure tale, so there is quite a lot of action. A great many battles take
place, both on an epic scale of warfare between opposing clans and on the smaller, more personal
one of individual characters at odds. And it is also a legendary fantasy, with mythological creatures
such as ogres and trolls, and a fire-breathing dragon - the dragon in Beowulf is one of the first in
western literature, in fact (Tolkien, of course, drew heavily on Beowulf for his Middle Earth epic,
so much of it might seem strangely familiar). But on top of that there is tale of personal struggle. It is
a quest story, really, of a man in search of himself. Many of the characters are at odds with their
world, in one way or another, trying to fit in or find a place where they belong, and it is that which
truly propels the events, rather than just one adventure after another. The story dwells a lot on Fate,
and how one finds (or makes) meaning in one's life. It is a very philosophical work in many ways,
dealing with some fairly heavy issues, foremost of which, of course, is facing death. It is a tragedy,
as you know if you have read the poem, but one which is not without hope. And there is a poignant
love story interwoven through it all, which is the heart of all the rest.
Q: How long did it take you to write The Saga of Beowulf and what was the process like in
getting published?
A1: That is two questions, so I will give you two answers. Overall it took more than a decade from
start to finish. But as I said, I came to it through a very circuitous route, and did not work on it all
the while. Long periods went by when I did not work on it at all, for one reason or another, and
then a flurry of activity would go on for some time, so that it came in fits and starts. Sometimes
when months (or years) went by I would have to start again from Chapter 1, re-reading all my
notes and all that came before to get back up to where I was. There is so much detail and such a
wealth of information to keep straight, that even so many notes became a burden. But in terms of
actual writing time it was probably something like two to three years on the novel, and another year
for the screenplay before that, spread out over ten and interspersed with research. Just the outlining
and writing of the synopses probably comes to a year alone. I had this great chart running along the
top of my wall for a span of six feet or so, laying out all the subplots so I could see where all the
characters were at any given point, and keep the pacing steady.
A2: As far as the publishing process goes, I sent out about 60 queries a year ago, mostly to agents,
of which I have as yet only heard back from barely half. Of those I had requests for partials from 8
or 10, and have still not heard back from half of those. The rest, of course, were rejections, though
a few with helpful notes and words of encouragement. I have actually only submitted to three
publishers, and heard back from one. Daw rejected it after two months, and Tor has had it for over
three with no reply. There are very few publishers who specialize in fantasy, and a scant handful
who will take submissions without an agent. And all but one or two of these require exclusivity,
meaning you can submit to only them, and then you must wait for their reply before sending it to
another publisher. It's an utterly ridiculous process, geared entirely to benefit the trades. So in the
meantime, not being one to wait around for someone else to decide how my life would go, I
decided to start my own publishing company. And Fantasy Castle Books was born. In this age of
modern technology, with print-on-demand and internet retailing, the trade publishers no longer have
a choke-hold on the market. It is now the readers who determine what is good and what is not,
and not the boardroom publicists, whose only goal is massive sales. As an independent
author/publisher I can connect directly with my readers, and am happy with far fewer sales,
because I know they will be based on my writing and not on advertising. My only marketing is
through channels like this, just to let the readers know the book is there. Then it is up to them to
decide for themselves if it deserves a place upon the virtual shelves of Amazon and B&N.com.
Q: Did you make The Saga of Beowulf: more historical than fantasy, more fantasy than
historical, or a balanced mixture of both?
A: That is an excellent question, and one I am glad you asked. Beowulf is almost always taken as a
tale of fantasy, both by critics of the original poem and authors of adaptations. There have been
quite a few short novellas done over the years - John Gardner's "Grendel" and Michael Chricton's
"Eaters of the Dead" most notably among them - and even a few longer works; but almost all deal
with it as a monster tale, a period fantasy and nothing more, with the historical elements only
providing a palette for the fantasy. Beowulf, however, is based in part on actual events that
occurred in the early 6th century, corroborated by external evidence, both in archaeology and
chronicle. It was the historical elements that most fascinated me, and which ultimately enticed me to
undertake this work, all the more because they are so overlooked, even in the poem, where they
are scattered as broken shards among the ruins of a fallen race. I did my best to piece these all
back together and present them as a cohesive narrative, albeit one enmeshed in fantasy. So
hopefully I have achieved some sense of balance between the two. There is definitely more overt
fantasy, but it is difficult to extract the two. The most strictly historical (and best documented)
portions come in the third quarter of the story, and right at the beginning where I set up the premise,
but it is all built on a strong historical foundation.
Q: In the Beowulf universe, who is your favourite character and why?
A: Wiglaf is my favorite, although I came to love (and despise) a great many of the characters. But
Wiglaf is really a core character, and represents for me the true hero in the story. In the poem he is
really just a bit part, but his role is so pivotal and so important in the scope of events that I brought
him in right from the start and made him more significant. To me he is much like Sam Gamgee is in
Tolkien: the little guy who has his head on right. When all the more lofty characters have issues of
ego and greed and power to contend with, Wiglaf is the loyal friend, the honest one whose heart is
true and brave. And he is funny too, in his way.
Q: I have to ask, what did you think about the recent CGI movie about Beowulf? The one
with Anthony Hopkins and Angelina Jolie.
A: I had mixed feelings about it (as well Beowulf & Grendel, with Gerard Butler, which came out
the year before). Overall I thought it wasn't bad, although I think it was a great mistake to make the
humans CGI. It's amazing how good animation is getting, but it's just not there yet with human
characters. It made the whole film look too cartoonish, and hard to take seriously. Had they made
it more like the recent Star Wars films, where the humans were filmed real, but in a world made up
almost entirely of CGI, it would have been so much stronger. Having actual actors lends a reality to
the animation that is just not there otherwise. Angelina looked great, but Hopkins did not, and you
could definitely tell where the computer guys spent all their time! My main complaint about the
Robert Zemeckis film, though, was the dialogue. Neil Gaimon & Roger Avery are good writers,
but the script was really weak. Period dialogue is really hard to do, granted, but so many good
fantasy movies are just utterly ruined by stilted dialogue, and the "I am Beowulf!" business has
gotten plenty of just ridicule of late (even though the line is actually in the poem, albeit in a
completely different context). In general, the story was done pretty well, but the plot twist involving
the demon-spawn business was just taken too far, and ultimately amounted to little, really, in terms
of emotional attachment to the characters. Character motivation is everything in a story, to me, and
unless you can identify with their drives it is very hard to appreciate a story for more than its action.
Q: What do you have planned for next?
A: Before I went to college, long ago, I had actually begun a fantasy story called "The Jester's
Quest," in which a lowly court jester falls in love with the princess and sets off on an epic quest to
prove his worth. I went to college to study writing because of that story, but have not yet gotten
back to it. I pulled it out the other day, and honestly I think now that I just should have written it.
An education never hurts, but I think I was on the right track all along. In another year or two we'll
see if that holds true! I need to get that one done, because I have other ideas pushing at the
backside of my brain, wanting to get out.
Q: What final thing would you like to say to any potential reader who isn't sure if they
want to read your book?
A: If you're still unsure, hop on over to fantasycastlebooks.com, where you can read the whole first
chapter and half the second online. Amazon also has the Look Inside feature where you can read
the first eight pages or so. But if you like epic fantasy adventure it doesn't get much bigger than this.
640 pages for fifteen bucks, and it's really packed: Viking ships and sea serpents, battles on land
and sea, love and betrayal, action and adventure, swords and dragons and joy and tears.
Thanks again!
| POPIN'S LAIR INTERVIEW |
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